Parents
Alan Rappoport, Ph.D.
Abstract
This article introduces the term “conarcissism”
to refer to the way that people
accommodate to narcissistic parents. I use
the term narcissism here to refer to people
with very low self-esteem who attempt to
control others’ views of them for defensive
purposes. They are interpersonally rigid,
easily offended, self-absorbed, blaming, and
find it difficult to empathize with others. Conarcissistic
people, as a result of their
attempts to get along with their narcissistic
parents, work hard to please others, defer to
other’s opinions, worry about how others
think and feel about them, are often
depressed or anxious, find it hard to know
their own views and experience, and take the
blame for interpersonal problems. They fear
being considered selfish if they act
assertively. A high proportion of
psychotherapy patients are co-narcissistic.
The article discusses the co-narcissistic
syndrome and its treatment, and gives case
examples of patients who suffer from this
problem.
captures the relationship between an N and his victim. Co-Dependents are enablers. They enable an addict. They are pleasers, who learn to walk on egg-shells and help in ANY way they can. Although Co-Narcissists are also helpful pleasers with egg stepping acumen, the dynamics between a Co-Dependent and an addict and a Co-Narcissist and an N are much more convoluted and complex for the simple reason that in order to satisfy his addiction an alcoholic or drug addict does not have to dismantle or devalue his martini or syringe. But in order to get a continuous supply of positive NS an N must dismantle his source. He must render her compliant and malleable. He is like a sculpture (ironically my ex is a fairly talented sculptor!) and his victim is seen as a lump of clay. This is why sources of NS are interchangeable.Co-Narcissists are often the children of N parents. My mother was a Narcissist and in retrospect it's very easy to see how ripe I was for N picking. My ex was able to push every button my mother installed on me. My mother was very critical and watched over me constantly, waiting for me to make a mistake so she could "correct" me. N's love to "teach" and "correct". It puffs up the False Self in two ways. First it makes them feel valuable and charitable to have an underling and second it demeans those being corrected. Demeaning your VoN keeps the N elevated. My ex hovered over me in exactly the same way that my mother did. And, he hovers over his own son in that way as well. I've run interference for his son on many occasions when my ex was trying to "correct" or "help" him, but was really doing nothing more than criticizing and disabling him.
This blog's link goes to a PDF article about children of N's. There are a number of books out there on this topic, but none specifically discuss Co-Narcissism. The article linked here is the only substantial reference I've found on this topic so far, but I hope more will be written in the future. Please contact me if you know of any other articles on this specific topic.

Hi Laura,
ReplyDeleteThe term I made up years ago for those repeatedly enmeshed with pathological narcissists is Narcissist Codependent(NCo for short). Vaknin tried to manipulate this term into being Co-Narcissist, as if the victims were co-perpetrators. Codependence is, imo, a neurotic behavior pattern arising out of the relational template downloaded from emotionally damaged and damaging parents. It's something with many aspects that can be healed if the person with the pattern wants to work on it and put real effort over some years into having healthier relationships with others and self. The pathology of narcissism, however, is all pervasive, rigid and unhealable. It is not, imo, a mental illness but an emotional illness. Some aspects of pathological narcissism may be treated with behavior modification but the core illness is lifelong.
In trying to sort this narcissist codependent pattern out in my own life I tried to gather my thoughts to make sense of it. Here are some typically long posts, written mostly about 7 years ago, in which I did that on this topic. I hope it is alright with you that I posts these links after your essay in the hope that they may be useful to your readers:
Hooks and Detaching chronology:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/message/8823
Here's a post thinking about how to pick oneself up out of the ashes after being roadkill and detaching from the narcissist, with a title that reads pretty hokey: Reclaiming one's personal rainbow:
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/message/10199
damage done by being mere Narcissistic Supply
and
Getting the idealize-devalue cycle of a N
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/message/10577
EXCELLENT article re N&NCo enmeshment
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/message/12050
Echo No Longer healing guideline and thoughts
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/message/10897
Importance of bashing Ns and "Measuring" personality disorders
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/narcissisticpersonalitydisorder/message/11885
An article that, imo, describes the brain damage done to an infant that causes pathological narcissism. "Dear Recovery Friends,
I feel like I've hit paydirt with this exceptionally validating and
informative article about the brains of Ns being crippled in the
emotional areas. This is proof, written by professional, rigorously
trained scientists of what I've been saying in my amateur researcher way about Ns being limbically challenged. It talks about how Ns are
damaged, literally brain damaged, by bad parenting in their early years.
There are even diagrams on the original site to show what parts of the brain are damaged. Apparently this scientist has done brain mapping
and seen the parts of the brain in Ns that do not work in a healthy way, do not connect with a full range of emotions.
love,
Nicky"
The Effects of Early Relational Trauma on
Right Brain Development, Affect Regulation,
and Infant Mental Health
Allan N. Schore
http://web.archive.org/web/20020207170912/http://www.trauma-pages.com/schore-2001b.htm
With good wishes and love,
Nicky
nickyskye [at] gmail [dot] com
A thought-provoking message, Laura. I've had a struggle labeling myself as co-dependent since I have not replicated the N-relationship with other people. Nor have I leapt from the frying pan into the fire once the N-relationship was over.
ReplyDeleteThe N-relationship was one-of-a-kind.
While i may have personality traits that were taken advantage of by an opportunistic N, non-Ns respect my boundaries and do not seek enmeshment or 'invasioN'.
I will think about what you've written and see if other articles discussing this topic come to mind. I may have something in my collection of links.
I'd like to reference your message if you're comfortable with me doing that. This might encourage a discussion amongst forum members. Some people identify with the co-dependent label and others resist it completely. Even the term Co-N can incite a riot on message boards, ha!
The main point being that victims are NOT to blame, even if they had 'pleaser-type' personalities. They are certainly NOT co-abusers.
Hugs,
CZBZ
I've actually since reconsidered my position extensively and like the analysis in "Women Who Love Psychopaths." Please do feel free to publish my comments as a means of inspiring discussion, but I now reject the co-dependent/co-narcissist label entirely.
ReplyDeleteI reject it completely too Laura. WWLP turned me into a full believer.
ReplyDeleteI am going to defer to a writer & 2 respected abuse counselors on the subject and as to why I do NOT agree with the concept of codependence being applied to abusive situations:
QUOTE
Abused women aren't "CODEPENDENT." It is abusers, not their partners, who create abusive relationships.
- Lundy Bancroft; WHY DOES HE DO THAT?
QUOTE
During a recent media interview I said,"I think understanding this represents one of the largest break throughs in our understanding of dangerous intimate relationship dynamics. For so long we understood him but we didn't really understand her. She was wrongly labeled codependent but codependency treatment didn't help her. She was wrongly labeled a relationship or even sex addict and addiction treatment didn't help her.
She was wrongly labeled as mutually pathological and yet she was never diagnosed with her own personality disorder. Nothing fit and nothing explained her until we found the missing key... her 'off-the-Richter-scale traits' that put it all in perspective. Once we can understand her, we can help her." - Sandra Brown, MA saferelationshipsmagazine.com
QUOTE
By now if you have been trying to heal from a pathological love relationship and can't find effective and knowledgeble counseling you have probably figured out what we have... that the pathological love relationship is NOT widely understood.
Frustrated women hear unhelpful advise from family, friends and even therapists who label their attachment to pathological men as "codependent" or "mutally addictive" or merely "emotional abuse." Women jump from counselor to counselor and from group counseling experience to group counseling experience looking for someone, ANYONE, who understands this intense attachment to a dangerous and pathological man. - Sandra Brown, MA saferelationshipsmagazine.com
QUOTE
But foggy-headed idiots (like those espousing the co-dependence theory) try to claim that you stop being a victim by pretending that you have never been made one. That's crazy. - Kathy Krajco
QUOTE
Every narcissist has a trail of victims in his or her wake. Psychologically injured victims. The pupils of therapist's eyeballs turn into dollar signs $$.
Narcissists put up with treatment only for a short time - until they find a new host to parasitize, but the victims of narcissists can be kept in your appointment book for life if you play your hand right.
Enter "codependency disorder." A way for mental healthcare professionals to capitalize on the harm a narcissist does. Exploiting the victims.
Because it is much easier and more profitable to blame and pathologize the victim in the name of "treatment" than it is to do anything about the victimizer. - Kathy Krajco narc-attack.blogspot.com
QUOTE
The preachers of codependence say that you are to blame for how the narcissist's abuse makes you feel. They say that no one can make you feel anything. That if you feel bad about abuse, it's your fault. Specifically, you lack self-esteem. Shame on you. That makes you a victim. And it's bad to be a victim.
If that isn't blaming the victim, I don't know what is.
I ran across this example on the web: It starts off in the title saying that no one can make you feel anything, though the writer admits it's hard to achieve this mental armor.
Lets say someone comes up to you and says you are a liar. Inside you know you always tell the truth, you are confident in that and don't feel threatened by the accusations of this other person because you know youself, you know how you treat people and you don't care what others believe about you, you let your actions speak for you. The idea is if your self esteem is HIGH enough, and you are not dependant on the opinions of others, then you would be able to blow this off and feel secure in the knowledge that you are not a liar. The power then, that this other person seems to have over you is lost because you know the truth and you have faith in yourself/ your higher power.
It's hard to know where to begin disentangling this mess.
Presumably, the third sentence contradicts the second because the writer got the cart ahead of the horse and meant to say that 'only if your self-esteem is high will you be able to know that you are not a liar, etc.' Which is absurd. Your self-esteem can be in the pits, and you'll still know that you're not a liar.
This literary spaghetti confuses mere insecurity with being brain-dead, so brain-dead that if someone tells you that you are 3 feet tall, you believe them.
And what follows doesn't follow: "You know you always tell the truth, so you are confident and don't feel threatened by the accusation, and you don't care what others believe about you." There are two – count 'em, two – absurdities in that sentence.
First, being honest makes you feel unthreatened by the accusation that you are a liar? That's absurd. Being honest does not make you immune to damage by being called a liar. If you are a liar, THEN you suffer no real damage by being called a liar, because then you are just getting the reputation you deserve. That's justice. No foul. But when you're honest, that false accusation can make your whole past life go up in smoke. That's damage. The threat is real, and if you don't feel it, you are off ga-ga land.
Second, because you know you're honest, you don't care what others believe about you? That's a non sequitur. And anyone who says they don't care what others think about them is either deluded or lying.
Now for the self-esteem thing. First, self-esteem itself is but a feeling. It's your emotional response to how you treat yourself. People who force you to knuckle under to abuse beat it down, because they have made you stoop.
So, this guy is saying that if you pump up one feeling enough (your self-esteem) you won't ever be made to feel other (bad) feelings? That's another non sequitur.
That's two gigantic leaps of illogic.
Your self-esteem, among other things, will figure into your emotional response to this false accusation or any other kind of abuse. But the main factors will be whether the accusation is true and who the accuser is.
For example, have you ever incurred the wrath of a tempestuous little child? She stamps her foot at what you're saying and yells, "You're a liar!" You are not going to be bothered by that, are you? In fact, you'll be amused and have to try to hide your amusement so as not to rub it in. Why? Because you don't feel threatened by the accusation of a child.
But if your boss calls you a liar, that's a whole different thing. You are threatened by that, just by virtue of who he or she is. And you can't make his power over you go away by just pumping up your self-esteem.
So, the circumstances and the accuser have much more to do with your feelings than your self-esteem does. If you need fear that this accusation is going to be spread all over town, you are off in ga-ga land if it doesn't evoke a very strong negative emotion in you.
And any sensible, thinking person knows all this, so where is this half-baked doctrine coming from?
What's more, if it is a FALSE accusation, you will be all the more angry. Correction, you will be outraged, because your sense of shame and your sense of justice are being outraged. Yes, your sense of shame, because (contrary to this sloppy thinking) shame isn't guilt: shame is something others put on you. It wounds the innocent far more deeply than the guilty. Indeed, the most damaged are the most innocent.
Note that this preacher of codependency even says that you don't counter the false accusation. You just let your actions do the talking. In other words, you act like the offense didn't happen.
If that isn't aspiring to victimhood, I don't know what is.
I'm a firm believer in the victim rising from the dust as soon as possible and thundering with both fists in the air.
What's so horrible about admitting that other people's treatment of you can make you experience negative feelings as well as positive ones? Is that too scary, or what? Isn't it narcissistic to be in denial of that fact? Why do people need to feel in control of their feelings? And notice how it all comes down to power in the end. Why do people feel the need to be more powerful than their abuser? That too is exactly how the scared-of-his-own-shadow narcissist thinks.
He NEEDS to control others because he is terrified of a world in which he isn't more powerful. He NEEDS to feel in control of his feelings because he is a big baby who can't take them. He too regards feelings as weakness, so he represses them. Deludes himself about them. He too pumps up his self-esteem. Or, he thinks he does. He just pretends he has high self-esteem and represses awareness of his low self-esteem.
I don't think the cure for narcissistic abuse is to become like the narcissist who abused you.
Some feelings are pleasant, and some are unpleasant. Some, like anger and sorrow are emotional pain. Of course we don't like feeling them. At least if we are normal we don't. But does that mean they are intolerable? That they should be feared?
I know that fear is the first thing to go when you "descend into Hell and rise again."
Owned and acknowledged, feelings are not harmful, just painful. And they pass if you don't keep them buried in your subconscious. In fact, those unpleasant emotions are good for you in a way. They MOTIVATE you to do something about the theft or abuse. Without those feelings we'd all be pathetic wimps.
Numb ones betraying ourselves by going around and acting as though it didn't happen.
Note that those who "believe in codependency" always talk as though a person's feelings automate his or her conduct. But this obviously isn't true. At a very early age, we learn to stop being impulsive. That's a character trait of childhood that normal people leave behind. We learn to keep the rational mind in control of our behavior, even when angry. So, what is wrong with these people? Have they failed to learn this? Are they still so childish that their own behavior is driven by their emotions? Listen to them. They talk as though they have no idea that a human being has any self-control. They equate feeling angry with losing your temper and acting out to do something bad.
Their unnatural solution is to numb their natural feelings instead of to just grow up and practice self-control of their words and deeds.
http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/03/no...dependence.html
Thanks for the clarification about "Co-Dependent" and "Co-Narcissism." I agree and need to go through my blog and change that! I really like Narcissist CoDependent (NCo). It will take a while to change it all, but it will get done! Thanks for a great blog and all the wonderful commenters and links to great articles, etc. JAW
ReplyDeleteI do not agree with the "Co-narcissism", "Narcissist CoDependent or Co-Dependent" label. I believe the Narcissist/sociopath targets people with high morals and ethics, who are caring/nurturing who would never intentionally hurt or manuipulate anyone, who believe all others are the same way and who would not believe in a million years they could come into contact with narcissist or sociopath in everyday day life.
ReplyDeleteOne question to ask yourself is were all your relationships with Narcissist? If the answer is no then how can you be narcissist codependent or any other label.
What if you have your dream job then they hire a Narcissist or sociopath that creates chaos on the job site. Are you "Co-narcissism or narcissist Co Dependent" for not leaving your dream job?? Are all the employees who stay co-dependent, Narcissist Codependent or co-narcissism?
Because you invest your money with Bernie Madoff are you "Co-Narcissism, Narcissist Co Dependent" or do you just believe you are planning for your retirement years?
Because you are conservative and vote for Arnold SChwarzenegger are you Co-narcissism, Narcissit Co Dependent or co dependent?
So why would you label yourself 'Narcissist Codependent" for staying in a relationship with the narcissist who keeps telling you he will change and does for a few days or weeks.
I saw everything clearly that my sociopath/narcassist was doing. My problem was if I say i'm going to change something I actually will work on the issue and I believed everyone else was the same. The narcassist is all talk and no action and hence I should have looked at his action not his word.
Throw in his manipulation, brainwashing, projection, gaslighting, false myths, chaos and now you have brain fog which is preventing you from thinking clearly to leave the relationship. We were never prepared for their crazy thinking so we did not know how to handle them head on. There is no way to problem solve their crazy thinking like our other normal relationships.
I think the other problem of why we stayed in such a relationship is we were raised with "false myths" and as we became adults we did not re-evaluate the false myths we were told.
Since childhood everyone has always said "marriage is hard work so you have to work at it everyday"....guess what I believed this false myth. A good relationship has mutual respect & kindness, you dont' have issues every minute of the day because you are having fun in the relationship. I was also raised catholic...they gave me the guilt factor for staying my marriage, more false myths to believe and the main thing I believed that I would never come into contact with a bad person or if I did I could deal with them in a logical manner, I thought they were the type you would see in jails not the guy you see in everyday life.
What I have learned is follow your gut and don't believe in all the myths that we were told by our parents, friends, family, church or TV. Step back and take a good assessment of what you believe and take the time to change your thinking if necessary...and more importantly do this throughout your life.
Our society as a whole reassess and re-evaluates our societies thinking, we have come a long way from witch hangings and segregation, thank goodness. So we too need to change our thinking on a regular bases.
I am a 44 year old female. I am in day 4 of my new life. By this I mean, I have finally, somehow or someway, come into full awareness that I am a victim of abuse. The abuse given by my N mother. For years, I have been reading, writing, learning how and why I was the way I was. What was wrong with me! All I thought I knew was that I was from a family with loving sisters and a strong, "loving" mother who were there in good times and bad. Not knowing, until now, that the main source of what was "wrong" with me was this woman, who was there during my worst times, to "help" me through. I never understood why when I was really down in my life, that I felt this huge foot on my neck by her. I just dismissed it as what I have learned about who I "am." I'm defensive towards her because I am selfish, self-absorbed, and I need professional help. That kept me her victim as long as I was kept in the dark about what she really was, and that being, the source of my staying in this hell. I doubted myself and believed what she was saying. Whenever I got close to understanding how to "act" less selfish or self-absorbed, she would put me to the "test." I would always fail and my "identity" was right back to where I started. The cycle of this type of abuse is subtle and disguised so well, that the mainstream of therapists, doctors, friends, and even family generally believe that I am the cause of all this. They try to simplify it, give it a quick fix, and the burden of this life continued. Now, NOW, I am finally aware that this is not me!!! I can see so clearly that the emotional abuse when dealing with this type of mother is so different. Yes, it falls under the "abuse" category, but just as sexually abused victims have a certain set of unique concerns verses a physically abused person. It's not about making "my" abuse worse than theirs, it is just it touches on many different levels that only the people who have lived this way can know. At this point in time, I do not really know all the areas in which it has effected me. I am like a newborn baby who can not speak, but I sure as hell know what I feel. There are so many emotions that go into this, very similar to all types of abuse victims, but it has some of its own. I grew up feeling that I had a solid family. A supportive family and I felt lucky to have such a bond. I bragged about them. I beamed with pride. Is that how a sexually or physically abused person feels? I had goals and successes. I lived life "mirroring" normal people, thinking that life is full of struggles and good and bad times. I did not think I was a victim of "abuse," at all, and I was so thankful for that. Now, at the age of 44, the realization that I AM, without a doubt, a victim of horrific abuse. Abuse that has just come into the light recently. It was "placed" in a category. That's like putting all the different colors and varieties of apples in just one basket. If they were not each individually different, why do the grocery stores even bother to separate them. An apple is an apple, there's no difference. Oh, but there is...and that's how this is.
ReplyDeleteI will not just accept this fact and move on from here. I am in a FOG of what I should feel, what is real. what is not, and it goes on and on. The only thing I know, is that I am now out of the darkness. What's wrong with me has a name. It has an identity, and now I can move forward. I trust in God and he has guided me my whole life. I have free will and he knows that. But, now, I see where and WHY he has been guiding me and there is a sense of peace overshadowing all the other emotions. I've invested years and years trying to figure myself out and those years of researching all kinds of reasons now take on a new meaning.